In Tough Gas Economy, Civics Are Being Reborn

By Lindsey Seavert, WCCO-TV

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) — When you live across the street from a gas station and your truck gets about 10 miles to the gallon, there’s no better time to put the past in park.

Patrick McGowan, of West St. Paul, is proud enough of his 1979 Ford F-250 to give it a nickname: “Old Blue.” But he doesn’t even dare fill ‘er up these days. He says he can barely afford to use his truck for his favorite hobby, fishing.

“As gas prices have gone up, my freedom has gone down as far as getting around,” said McGowan.

So he set out to find a car with three times the gas mileage. He wanted a Honda Civic and near downtown Minneapolis, found the business, Civics Reborn.

Owner Zachary Moore, 21, started the business three years ago before gas prices tipped around $4 a gallon. Today, he’ll tell you the boiling point is driving a new make and model of business here in the Twin Cities.

“We’ve definitely quadrupled our business in the past three months,” said Moore.

The Civics Reborn program reinvents the concept of the used car. Moore sells just one generation of Honda Civics, what he calls the fifth generation known for safety features — from 1992 to 1995 — then strips them down, and rebuilds with mostly new parts.

Civics Reborn says they save money and energy by selling or recycling the old parts that are taken out of the old Civics.

“It has a zero carbon footprint. It’s already been bought, been driven,” said Moore. “This takes it to a whole new level. We are able to get closer to new car without having to take the entire car and build it first.”

Moore says fed up commuters like the average $5,000 price tag. Specializing in the Civic allows Moore to buys large quantities of parts at a cheaper rate, which helps mechanics cut down on labor.

“I can pull one of these motors out in two hours,” said mechanic Khris Spencer.

Civics Reborn customers head out on the road with a two-year warranty, driving cars that get around 30 to 35 miles per gallon.

Moore recently moved to a larger warehouse to keep up with demand.

Patrick McGowan says he understands why. He hopes that soon his new Civic will help kick his costs to the curb.

“It’s a money thing,” said McGowan. “I thought, ‘I have to do something different.'”

  • Victim Du Jour

    Only reason why they are being reborn is because Clinton handed out waivers for the Clean Air Act for SUV’s during the 1990’s

    Dispite population growth, we were using less oil than the 1970’s when Bush Sr left office.

    Reagan and Bush Sr reduced Oil Consumption more than anyone, and the Civic was part of that plan.

    • Ami

      We are proud owners of a 1995 Honda Civic from Mr. Moore’s Civics Reborn. The car is pretty sweet ride. Looks great, drives tight, and gets over 40 MPG!

      • Samantha

        I don’t believe it …..ur probably Zach or one of his dishonest workers…

        • Ami

          Samantha, believe it. We are customers. The car is really very, very good. People need to understand that they are buying an older car that is being rebuilt. They also need to understand that when they buy something sight unseen, paid in full, their own expectations may get blown out of proportion. We needed follow up service on the radio install, and that was completed to our satisfaction. That is more post-sale service than is ever expected from any other used car business. I stand by my original post. it is a sweet ride.

          • Ami

            I have an update. Today we received our title, complete and accurate. The “MN State Shutdown” slowed things down. The 95 Civic is driving great.

          • JCP

            It would be a great program if Zach returned phone calls or produced a car after you purchase one. We bought and paid for a car in May . It was to be done and we were to receive it June 6th it is now August 29th and no car. We have not heard from Zach since July 11th he was calling when he got to the shop that day to let us now where our car was. He must be having a hard time finding it or returning our money which he promised he would do if we didn’t get the car that day.

  • Cry me a river

    Has anyone actually gone through Civics Reborn? Interested in hearing some reviews from actual customers.

    • Not a happy camper

      Right. Great idea, but he is lacking on the follow through. We’re in the process of getting a car from Civics Reborn and it has been the most frustrating experience of our life. They have 5k, and our car, and its been almost 2 months. Would not recommend this to anyone.

      • Micah Anderson

        I also purchased a car through the program from Zach. It has been horrible. I would like to talk to you about your experience so far. We are extremely dissappointed and are pursuing possible legal action. Please e-mail me at Thanks

    • Micah Anderson

      PLEASE DON’T USE THIS COMPANY!!! If you love your daughter don’t do it!!!!! My wife and I bought a car from this guy and it was the worst decision we ever could of made!! I thought it sounded like a great idea!! It is a great idea. Zach the owner is either incompitent or dishonest!!! Our car we recieved was filthy and half of the things promised to be done were wrong or incomplete. Please don’t do it!!!

  • yep

    Pretty neat idea. If they are restring the rusted out body panels I would definitly think about this. A car that age would be pretty cheap to maintain as well. Parts on newer vehicles are ridiculous all the way down to the tires. People seem to think you need 17 inch tires on a car. My 17 inch tires just cost me $750 to replace. Give me a set of 14 inch tires any day…

    • Samantha

      I thought it was a good idea too…but I signed the title on the 2nd of Feb. and its June now…I still haven’t gotten any idea of how far along my car is…I think Im gonna have to sew him…

      • Brian

        God forbid you have to “sew” him. That might hurt. I think “suing” him might work a little bit better. = )

  • Tax this guy

    I don’t like the sound of this program. He sounds like he may have some initiative and drive. We better tax him at a very high rate. It isn’t fair that he is getting rich and not paying his fair share.

    • wealthy tax payer.

      Yes, his profits (not revenue) should be taxed accordingly, more power to him! Because only the people generating wealth have the money to pay taxes. Moron.

    • Xan

      Yeah! Let’s tax those with initiative and drive LOTS -especially the young ones. That will be sure to encourage innovation. AND, let’s be sure to give lots of tax breaks to low initiative – that’s the ticket! Low ambition and lack of ingenuity is what built our country right? Pull your head out.

  • Jeff Hammond

    I think this thing looks awesome! – my daughter is probably going to need a different car for next fall when she goes to school. After seing this, I don’t think i’ll ever get a used car again. The last car I bought was a 2002 chevy cavalier. It’s been a good car, we got it for a little more then what these guy’s are asking for their top package, BUT WITH NO WARRANTY!!! I like the idea of putting NEW parts in to used cars before they are brought home, just makes sense.

    • Micah Anderson

      PLEASE DON’T USE THIS COMPANY!!! If you love your daughter don’t do it!!!!! My wife and I bought a car from this guy and it was the worst decision we ever could of made!! I thought it sounded like a great idea!! It is a great idea. Zach the owner is either incompitent or dishonest!!! Our car we recieved was filthy and half of the things promised to be done were wrong or incomplete. Please don’t do it!!!

  • That's great, but

    Farmers cannot haul their several tons of grain to market towed by a Honda Civic. Trucks are still needed by farmers, construction workers, etc…

    • jimn

      And your point is?

      • MNJohn

        The report used a $1500 10mpg truck and said that it could be replaced by a $6000 35mpg civic. Comparing apples to oranges. Why does he have a truck? Does he have a construction business hauling lumber and ladders around, or does he ride horses on the weekends and needs to haul a horse trailer? If not, maybe it is a good fit. Otherwise compare instead to a person who drives a new similarly sized car, or one similar in cost and size. Then compare cost of ownership and reliability. I think that is the point that the poster tried to make.

  • Common Sense?

    That has absolutely nothing to do with their program! OBVIOUSLY their not for “farmers to move cargo”. Is your next comment going to be about how we still need boats to get cargo over seas, and how this won’t work for that either?

  • Your Morning Coffee — Secrets of the City — Minneapolis + St. Paul

    […] CBSLocal: In tough gas economy, Civics are being reborn. “The Civics Reborn program reinvents the concept of the used car. Moore sells just one generation of Honda Civics, what he calls the fifth generation known for safety features — from 1992 to 1995 — then strips them down, and rebuilds with mostly new parts.” […]

  • Micah Anderson

    ***************READ THIS IF YOU ARE THINKING OF USING THIS COMPANY*****************I am a customer of Civics Reborn… Unfortunately!! This company is the worst company I have ever seen run. After we were required to pay for the car in full, sight unseen, we were also told it would be delivered in 13 days. We waited for 3 months to get our car and when we finally got it, we were shocked how incomplete and filthy it was. Not only were there things unfinished, the windshield leaked the ac and heat did not work. The interior door panels were the wrong color. Zach is a dishonest person. He will say one thing to your face and never do what he says!!! I wouldn’t wish our experience with this guy on my worst enemy!!! DON’T BE FOOLED.

  • Shana Erickson

    THIS IS THE WORST COMPANY I”VE EVER DEALT WITH! This goes far beyond poor customer service. Zachary Moore & the Civics Reborn (& Kaz Horus, his other “business” name) are SCAMS! I bought my vehicle from Zach over 2 months ago & (stupid me) paid over $4000 up front and was given a delivery date of April 13th. That date came and went and Zach has NEVER ONCE called me to give me an update or status on my vehicle. Even better? He now has a little girl for a secretary, Julie, who actually yelled at me tonight when I pressed her for a solid date and location of my vehicle, THEN said “Zach has more going on in his businesses than you’ll ever have in your little life!”. Seriously, I can’t make this stuff up. Needless to say, I’m left no choice but to file legal papers tomorrow, if anyone else is in the same boat and would like to join, please contact me at Thanks. In addition to all this, I think it’s incredibly irresponsible for WCCO to have done this news story before doing further due diligence to uncover what a scam the Civics Reborn program is and to rectify the situation, needs to do another story to do so.

    • John

      Perhaps KARE or KSTP should do a story on all the unhappy ex-WCCO viewers ??

  • George

    I’ve called WCCO, I’ve called Kaz Vehicles, and asked about these “customers” that say this company is so bad. Just so all of the people reading this know, the people who are complaining about their vehicles on these posts got FREE loaner cars to use while their car was being built. If our society really complains about this kind of stuff, maybe they don’t deserve this program. I hate the fact that we think we can have it all for nothing.

    • annoyed

      Really “George”, so broken down Loaner Cars are acceptable to give out? Ones that do not work? and when they break no one gets back to you? and no one answers calls? What about the people who got there cars and the work that was outlined wasnt done? what about broken contracts and promises on delivery dates, or even them saying they will send updates? EVERYONE has a busy life, kids, jobs, seconds jobs, companies they are starting, sports, stuff they enjoy, how does that get made up for the people? If someone cant keep a date and their word, what good is their word? Who is getting it all for nothing? Seems like these people have given up alot with no return on their payment. Also how do you know who the people are that are complaining, case by case, person by person, you asked by name and where given their information? that sounds safe and swell, really? So our society complains about getting a car after being put off for 3 months and yet when they get it, the main window leaks, the ac doesnt work (it states it is to be fully charged upon delivery), parts are half assembled, and they dont get the reciepts and list like promised? So they should just STFU and go on their way because they where provided such a wonderful service, with such beautiful customer service and total fullfilment of what was promised? Ok George, hand me $5,000, i will get you a car.

    • Fonda

      I have been waiting for my car since May 21 when it was promised, or a loaner car. Well, no loaner car was available, so I am RENTING a car which Zac agreed to pay for and now my bill is up to $1700 and yes, I am a little bit upset about this.

    • Fonda B

      I didn’t get a free loaner dude. I’ve got a rental car for 6 weeks now and a $1700 bill on my credit card

    • John

      BS. I have no loaner, I have no car, and the only time Zack has responded to me was 2 months ago (when he lied to me about being almost finished with my car) and one month ago, when he replied to the wrong customer in an email.

      Menawhile, he has by $5700 and refuses to return my phone calls or respond to my emails.

      “Deserve” ?? What we deserve is to be treated fairly, which CR has clearly not done. On the two occasions they have responded, they’ve lied to me. I fear they have been lying to everyone all along. When I finally tracked them down, they promised to find out what was going on and get right back to me. No such thing has happened.

      No business will work if you do not deliver on time (Business 101 – do not promise what you cannot deliver), if you do not communicate with your customers (PS – your customers are the only reason you HAVE a business), or if you delivery a poor quality product (guess I’ll comment on that WHEN and IF I ever see my car).

      Unfortunately, George, “our society” seems to be much more interested in commenting on things they know nothing about. Sad.

  • brain

    I want to like this program, but after 2 failed delivery dates, Zach never calling me back and still no real idea of what is going on, I am bummed. If they: treat their customers right and give them true delivery dates, don’t act like they are doing a disservice to them for calling and wondering where the car they paid for is, provided reliable loaners ( I recived 2 loaners both failed on me), up front car rental if they go over the promised due date ( now I have been offered a rental reimbursment but to be honest I am affraid I won’t get it reimbursed if I take them up on the offer), send updates, call, call, call and tell me what the status is, or how it looks and runs or anything about my car! And maybe go to a 50 down and 50 at delivery payment scheme so we are not the only ones putting our money into it at first, also if zach would be present on delivery so he can stand by his product ( I haven’t had a delivery but someone I talked to has and said he wasn’t there when he got his car that was not the way it was supposed to be), then maybe this program will be all it dreams to be. I feel bad for the mechanic who was to try and do all this on his own! I also feel for the new secretary for coming into at such a busy point and when he has not been handling people right and she has to come up with something for him. I hope they fix the issues in the future, and when I receive my car I will post more information about the final product, but until then I can only speculate. This could be great, but now it is just a strain in my life. To be continued…

    • Brain

      UPDATE: Zach has stepped up and offered some firmness and helped us out with a rental. Still not sure on the car yet as we have not recieved it. I dont believe he is trying to scam or hurt anyone, I just think he was not prepared for this popularity and was not sure of how to go about it. WIll update as it progresses.

      • Brain

        ok so final update. got money back never got car. got yelled at because we where not being patient enough i guess. Was I pissed? YES. Rich I am glad you are ok with waiting 2-3 months over a promised date, that is not fair to do to customers. Dont LIE to them, tell them the truth and give them the choice. In the end the cars I saw looked good, and seemed mechanicly good, so yes, you do eventually most likely get what you paid for, but NO you will not get it on the promised date, you will not get anything else agreed upon, unless you hardball it. I dont think they are Scam Artists at all, but dishonest, yes 100%. I believe he truly believes in his product and end goal. I truly believe he thinks he is doing a service for all. He is not running with peoples money and honestly I cant imagine him making to much money off this, so no not a scam, Just unprepared, unexpieranced and kind of a liar. I do not think this is that progressive, I have repaired cars most my lfie, thats what also brought me to this program, i thought it was awesome they did it to! Then 2 months later i realized I could have done this in this time and cost. Do yourself a favor, if you really want a used civic, and you want MOST the parts fixed, changed out, and a new paint job (these cars rust, within a year it will be rusty again). without knowing how much mileage is on the orginal car you purchased or, seeing anything at anypoint until delivery, then go for it. I truly think had I recieved my car at a close time to the original date, and had it been as promised, I would have been glowing with a rave review and not taken the action we had to. You can buy civics elsewhere, for a cheap cost. and still get over 40mpg. We ended up spending 2 grand instead and got a nice hatchback that gets 33mpg and is newer, runs great, and so forth. Yes this is not a used car expierance, if you buy here, be prepared for a new way of purchasing. PS to Rich thanks for telling me I was supposed to work for something I paid for and continue at it for 3 months. I guess I wasnt progress enough for that. I DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND.

        In the end I am happy by getting my money back. Thats my story. do what ya will.

        • Rich Prewett

          I don’t doubt or argue anything you said. I was just offering my account. I am NOT mechanically handy so finding an old Civic and doing the work myself is not an option. More power to ya Mr Skilled Mechanic! But I actually don’t think that Zak is a liar necessarily.He is young, idealistic, and inexperienced. Should consumers eat that? Of course not. But as I said before, don’t do business with them then. It is unfortunate for them and their potential customers that they may be getting ahead of what their true readiness is right now. I think that their intent and vision are sound and even noble, but their ability to deliver and follow through are their current weaknesses and could regrettably be their ultimate downfall. I hope not because I still say that their basic concept is enlightened and progressive.

        • Very Unhappy Customer

          Did you get all of your money back right away? We returned our car because it was not what was promised and there was more wrong with it than right, plus they were not honest about the progress of the car and repeatedly promised delivery only to put us off “just a couple days”, over and over for weeks. We got Zach to agree to give us our money back, but he said he couldn’t return it all at once and promised and signed a written agreement to pay us back and now is not making payments. I wish we had not gotten involved in this business.

  • Rich Prewett

    All of these comments are well and good, and everyone has a right to their own opinion. My name is Rich Prewett and I have a car that I ordered from the Civics reborn program. was it an ideal experience? No, but neither is any car buying experience, especially if you are buying used. Did I get my car on the projected delivery date? Not even close, but I also entered into this knowing that this was a very unconventional and progressive buying experience. Did I get what was promised? Eventually. It took a little back and forth communications, but in the end, I got what was promised. My point with this post is to remind people that this program is very new and very forward thinking. If you want a conventional experience, then spend your money at a conventional car dealer and get almost what you pay for. Zack and Co. are not dishonest or scam artists. They may be in a little over their heads, but they are not trying to scam anyone. If you are willing to be progressive then be progressive and work WITH them. If you are not ready for that stay in the norm and don’t get involved. But certainly don’t order a car and then expect it to be an everyday buying experience. My car gets over 40 MPG and is still a better deal than anything I tried at a used car dealer. And I don’t buy new, that’s another topic….’Nuff said.

    • Jacinda B.

      From your experience with this small company, it seems that you have a sense of what their mission is, how the process goes, and what kind of people should/shouldn’t seek business from them. Thanks for sharing the little blurb!

    • John

      How do you work WITH someone who takes your money and gives you promises promises promises, and then never delivers and never returns your messages ??

      If this is how you would work with someone, glad I don’t work with you. Wish I’d never tried to “work” with Zack and his buddies.

      Inexperienced my eye. He seems to be very very skilled at what he does :(

  • Another Irate Customer

    Does anyone know the current address of Zach’s shop? The old address was 2500 Washington Avenue. I believe he moved his operation to another facility. Any help would be appreciated.

    • John

      I agree. I seem to have no other way to actually talk to someone at the company, other than to stop by in person and demand they answer my question. WHERE’S MY CAR ???

    • JCP

      3131 California Street NE
      Minneapolis Mn 55418

  • Kelly

    And now the Phone Number has been disconnected at KAZ Vehicles!!
    Yet they continue, on the web-site to ask for NEW CUSTOMERS to contact them via the email address. Of course they don’t respond to the emails I’ve sent to that address – a customer who paid for a car in mid-Jun, hasn’t got the car obviously, and hasn’t heard anything from Zac, despite repeated attempts by both phone and email. Has anyone hired an attorney yet, and should we consider a group lawsuit?

    • John

      After numerous attempts with no response, I finally registered a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, to which they have not responded of course.

      My next call is to the MN Attorney General’s office. Since numerous pleas from customers and WCCO go unanswered, perhaps the law will be a bit tougher to ignore !!!

      I really like the idea of Civis Reborn, but I think Zack is too young, too inexperienced, and too dishonest (or too stupid) to pull it off. Who honestly believes you can run a consumer business, take the customer’s money, and then not deliver the goods as promised — and then to insult and incense them further, avoid all communication with them ??

      Tom Petters had a lot of great ideas on how to make money, but evidently the same moral compass (He also took money — a lot of money — for goods that he never intended to deliver). Look where he ended up.

      • JCP

        We contacted both the Better Business Bureau and MN Attorney General’s office. No real help either way. We have filed and have a court date in Conciliation Court in Hennepin County. We were able to serve papers to Zach himself but both mailed copies to his business addresses have come back undeliverable. So even if we win the case we still are the ones that have to get him to pay and at this point it doesn’t seem like it will be easy.The system seems to protect the business owners and not the customer.

        • terry

          We are looking to go same way, Attorney General’s office and Conciliatino Court. At this time I am concerned about having proper contact information. Are you able to provide? While it may not do much good at least I’ll feel better trying.

        • Jeff Ducklow

          I spoke with the attorney generals office today and tried to get a sense if they might take action if a group of us worked together. The answer: sort-of, if enough people complain. Please reply back if you’d like to work together on this.

          • carluck

            Might be interested can you give me your contact info? E-mail address? Thanks

            • Jeff Ducklow

              Go to facebook and send me a ‘friend’ request. My picture has two puppies. We can exchange information from there.

          • carluck

            Might be interested can you post your contact info? E-mail address? Thanks

          • Irate

            I would love to join the group. I’ve been waiting since May for my son’s car. Let me know how to connect with you.

          • John

            I’m in. I have been waiting since June. Went to the shop a few times and talked to the head mechanic who suppoedly had my car in the shop and was working on it. That was September 6.

            I will try to connect via Facebook also.

  • Alyssa

    So after FINALLY receiving my car 3 months later than they had promised, I now find that there are many things wrong with the car. The starter didn’t work, the air conditioning died after about two days, the shift was incredibly sticky to the point that sometimes it was impossible to shift, the passenger side seat belt was obviously under regulation standards, and much more. I give this place a huge thumbs down; not only do they not give you your car until you are about to give up and get another, it requires a LOT (at least in our case) of work on it. Given, Civics are good cars that are worth taking care of, but this is ridiculous. Until they shape up their game I would recommend NOT trying to get a car from here.

  • Man Charged With Fleeing Police On Motorcycle « CBS Minnesota

    […] The original story on Civics Reborn […]

  • justice

    and now he is in jail and not for undelivered vehicles! check out link below

    we bought our car in the first week of april nothing. i know that 4 or 5 people are taking him to civil court. We have filed against him in civil court too!
    click on link to access case records and put in his KAZ Vehicles to see them all
    He belongs right where he is, jail!

    • JCP

      where can you access the case records?

      • justice
        • carluck

          So wish I had read this prior to giving Civics reborn my 5 grand… its been a month and I keep hearing how difficult it is to find a car. How does one file a civil suit? Have people who have done this received any money?

          I attempted to find a civil case listing given the MNcourt web site but didn’t find anything under KAZ vehicles. Is he in jail? What can be done to get my money back?

          • Kelly

            I couldn’t figure out how to get the info from the MNCOURTS site either, can you advise?
            Thanks –

            • carluck

              I did find it under Civics reborn…

              • case

                At the bottom of the page, click I ACCEPT then choose Civil, Family & Probate Case Records. Change Case to Party and change name to business and search for kaz horus for conciliation cases.

                • case

                  You also have to enter numbers or letters where it says Enter The Characters Seen Above.

        • Jeff Ducklow

          Any progress to report? Would love to exchange information.

        • Jeff Ducklow

          Could love to hear an update if you’ve made any progress with taking Zach and company to court.

  • Josiah Evensen

    ha oh my gosh.

    THIS COMPANY IS SOOOOO BAD. dont do it. if you have, im so sorry. i paid for my car in April and i got it in July. little ridiculous, ya?!? iv had sooo many problems with the car. its so dumb. has anyone acutally sued him?! lemme know if you have or not.

    to fix all the problems in this car, it would cost me over 2000. i mean, one issue is that my wheel bearings is loose. MY TIRE COULD FALL OFF AND I COULD DIE. pretty cool i must say. not.

  • Jeff Ducklow

    I would be happy to work with any one or group that is pursuing legal action against Zach and Company. A stream of broken promises to us since June 6 2011.

  • Roy Kuyackl

    I would be very interested in joining any legal action. I ordered a car June 6th and am still waiting. I have been having the same problems as I have been reading on this page. I filed a complaint with the BBB and have tried to get in touch with WCCO with no luck. The last 2 times I went to the garage there was no one there. Let me know I am in.

    • Jeff Ducklow

      Roy –

      Friend me at Facebook and I’ll share info with you.

      • Kelly

        Jeff – I want to join as well, but don’t FB. I’ll see if I can find you via my son Matt’s FB. We;ve been waiting for a car for him since June 17.


      • Karen C

        My daughter also ordered a car in June and is having the same issues as everyone else. Can I get info from you?

        • Jim O

          Time to get everyone together and go after Zach/Civics Rebor/Kaz Horus. We may not get our money back, but maybe we’ll get something, and he will get what he deserves. Are people willing to split costs for a PI first, and then a lawyer?

  • Roy/Cindy Kuyack

    Jeff- I have tried to friend you on my wife’s Cindy FB but haven’t heard from you, maybe I got the wrong Jeff.

  • R. Kuyack

    Jeff- Roy again maybe you could e-mail me

  • Jim O

    Adding this at the bottom as well, so it won’t get missed:
    Time to get everyone together and go after Zach/Civics Rebor/Kaz Horus. We may not get our money back, but maybe we’ll get something, and he will get what he deserves. Are people willing to split costs for a PI first, and then a lawyer?

  • John

    If you bought a car from Civics Reborn and have not received the product you paid for, please contact me at I met with an attorney before Christmas and described my situation to him. He seemed to think it would be pretty straight forward to get a judgement against the company for each of us or for us as a group. He also stated he would be willling to sit with us to discuss what options we have, procedures, costs, and timelines. We did not discuss whether we would charge for this consult or not. Nevertheless, I think we should act quickly, as it is unclear whether there is any money left to be recovered.

    I have been trying to contact others on the list, and I have the Kuyacks, Jeff, and another friend who I stupidly referred to the program before I knew they were going to rip me off. The attorney is in the Woodbury\Lake Elmo\Oakdale area (I-94 and Radio Dr). Karen, Kellye, and Jim O, or anyone else here, I can add you to the emails once i have more details.

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