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Tap Talk: Burning Brothers Brewing

Over the last five or so years, the craft brewery movement has grown exponentially in Minnesota. So, we decided to help you – and your livers – keep up with the taproom trend by stopping by some of these breweries/taprooms. This week, we check out Burning Brothers Brewing in St. Paul.

In Tap Talk's noble quest to give Minnesotans -- and everyone else -- a little glimpse into what the state's brewery/taproom scene has to offer, I (and Katie) have managed to run across some very interesting people.

It's such a diverse community. From electrical engineers-turned brewers, to the women behind the first women-owned brewery, to high-rise builders getting in the brewery game … these are extremely interesting people.

And Burning Brothers Brewing is no different. These guys have a doozy of a backstory.

First of all, the brewery's interesting name comes from the fact that both of the founders – Dane Breimhorst and Thom Foss – used to be fire-eaters in the circus. Yep. They ate fire.

Secondly, and most importantly, it's an entirely gluten-free brewery. In fact, Burning Brothers is the only dedicated gluten-free brewery in the Midwest.

Burning Brothers
(credit: CBS)

But, initially, gluten-free beer wasn't in their plans. Their journey to making great gluten-free beer started with some pretty terrible news: As they were getting their business plan ironed out, Dane found out he had Celiac disease, which means ingestion of gluten leads to damage in the small intestine.

The news shook the duo's plans to the core, and they both thought the entire business idea was done. But they didn't give up. First, they had to try some established gluten-free beers.

"Dane took about six months to come to terms with what his new lifestyle meant, and we started going out there and trying gluten-free beer … We'll be polite and just say it was not good," Thom said, laughing. "(We) thought that there's got to be a better way and said, 'how hard could it be?' and the answer was: incredibly hard."

They basically had to start from scratch. One of their major problems: avoiding the cider-like sweet taste that results from using sorghum, which is a major alternative grain used for gluten-free beer.

"It has a very green apple flavor to it, which is not a sought after flavor in beer," Dane said. "The other flavor is a never-ending sweetness. Most sugar substitutes are made from sorghum so you get the never-ending sweetness that doesn't go away."

It was a challenge. However, after extensive research, development and Dane employing his culinary background, the team developed a process that compliments the sorghum – instead of simply masking it. (more detail in interview below)

The result: Gluten-free beer that tastes like beer ... in fact, great-tasting beer.

So, Celiac disease sufferers, you have a safe haven in Burning Brothers! As they say, "Don't fear the beer."

For more on the background of Burning Brothers, check out the interview with Dane and Thom below!

Burning Brothers
(credit: CBS)

INTERVIEW

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So, first things first … how did all the fire-eating start?

Dane: I started at the Minnesota Renaissance Festival in Faribault. I lied to magician, told him I knew how to do it, and did it and burned the crap out of myself – didn't let him know that – then he said, "do you wanna do a show?" and I said sure and broke into his tent during the week and grabbed his torches and began practicing.

Thom: Dane's actually the one who got me into fire eating. I was, what, 20 at the time or something and Dane asked me, "Do you want to learn how to eat fire?" and I'm like, "OK." (Laughs) I can't give you any more romance to that story!

So, what was the spark for the brewery?

Thom: Dane and I had known each other for 20 years but that first 10 years we didn't know the other was really brewing/fermenting, so I think it was just a phone call, basically, saying, "hey what are you doing?" and I'm like "well, I'm making this batch of mead." And Dane's like "what?" After that, we started hanging around together and started brewing beer on a regular basis.

And like a lot of home brewers, we started having that conversation: "we should open up a brewery!" We started getting serious about it and about six months into being "for realzies" about it, Dane switched doctors and the new doctors said, "you know, I have a suspicion to why you feel like s—t all the time."

So, that's when Dane was diagnosed ... rough timing.

Dane: I still remember the first phone call … as soon as we were getting to the point of looking for equipment for our venture, the business plan written and trying to secure financing for the equipment, yeah, I was diagnosed with Celiac and that all came to a crashing stop right there. I thought – we both thought – that the whole business idea and concept was done.

What happened then?

Thom: Dane took about six months to come to terms with what his new lifestyle meant, and we started going out there and trying gluten-free beer.

We'll be polite and just say it was not good. (Laugh)

Dane: I'll be more polite. I'm not saying it wasn't good, but it didn't meet our criteria or palette.

Thom: But I mean really, what we're mincing around is, that it didn't taste like beer.

Dane: I give all the kudos in the world to Bard's Tale just because they went ahead, took the initiative and they were the first ones to jump in the pond and see how deep the waters ran. So, they came before us and we'll certainly ride on their shoulders, but we do things different.

Go on ...

Thom: We tried all the (gluten-free) beers and thought that there's got to be a better way and said "how hard could it be?" and the answer was: incredibly hard. Because … even if you go on the internet today and do research on gluten-free beer, and methods and recipes and stuff like that, it's very scattered information – if at all. So, there isn't a whole lot of documentation to fall back on.

Almost everything we do is a start-from-scratch recipe.

We did some extensive R&D (research and development), so we brewed basically every week – twice a week – and just started tweaking things here and there. We'd make the same recipe three or four times in a row and just adjust one thing each time, so we could begin to see how gluten-free grains interacted with traditional beer ingredients.

Dane: Which we found out was pretty different. Our brewing process here, which everybody seems to want to get their hands on, is very different than the norm out there.

Burning Brothers
(credit: CBS)

Thom: But it isn't at the same time. That's the funny part. If you go out on our brew floor right now, it's all the same equipment you can find in any other brewery.

Burning Brothers
(credit: CBS)

Dane: Except, of course, barley, wheat, rye. We just use different ingredients, but same kind of hops, same basic process. It's just how we treat the grains, how we treat our yeast, how we ferment. So, we figured out the formula, instead of the recipes, so now I'm pretty quick at writing new recipes. I mean, it takes us a good couple of times to tweak them and get them on the right path, but a whole lot less than it did before. And then it was Dec. 15 of 2013 when we brewed our first big batch. It was a 15-hour brew.

Burning Brothers
(credit: CBS)

So, what beers are impossible to recreate?

Thom: Impossible to recreate? There are beers we haven't attempted yet -- how about that. I'd be willing to say that. I mean, we have what we refer to as our "Everest" beers. A good example is a Belgian Triple, because that's a very specific flavor profile that you're looking at.

Dane: Sours. Lambics are just hard on its own, which is a type of sour. I still wouldn't mind making like a Flanders or Gueuze.

Thom: For a while there, we thought the American premium lager, if you will, the Budweiser clone, was another Everest, but actually we've had some pretty good success lately with that. I think we're getting to a point where we're able to put that to the market.

Burning Brothers
(credit: CBS)

Dane, do you risk your health for little sample of non-gluten-free beer every now and then?

Dane: I haven't. I keep threatening to. Everybody tells me not to, but one of these days I will most likely break down and I'll end up at the Ale Jail or Elevated and make a twelve pack of one of those make-your-own-12-packs. And it'll be everything that's the best example of that style that I can find. And I'll go to town.

For more on the challenges with gluten-free beer, listen to the audio segment below! (Dane is the first to talk)

Besides the gluten-free aspect, what's your overall philosophy for your beer?

Dane: We get a lot of ideas from the taproom crowd on the direction we go.

And we've turned into a kind of safe spot. That was the direction we wanted to go anyways -- to have a haven (for the gluten-free community). When food trucks come in here, they only serve gluten-free food. It's a 100 percent gluten-free facility.

Random question, but are there certain parts of the brewing business that the average consumer might not know? Some dirty secret?

Thom: Here's your dirty old secret in the brewing industry: If you produce a beer that's not quite what you intended it to be … "look, it's a special release!" (Laughs) As long as it's still drinkable.

Dane: As long as it tastes good. It might not taste like what you were looking for, but as long as it tastes good!

Burning Brothers
(credit: CBS)

Do you have any advice for ambitious beer makers wanting to open their own brewery?

Dane: I have loads of advice. The first one would be don't! (laughs)

Thom: But in all seriousness, it comes down to having thick skin, because you're going to get a lot of rejection. Not only from, you know, money people, but from consumers. Like at beer festivals, the first time we had people turn and walk away was they heard our beer was gluten-free, you know? It felt a little like a dagger in the back.

Dane: And you get on Beer Advocate and start reading reviews …

Thom: Anytime we want to deflate our egos we go on Untapped. (Laughs)

Dane: Untapped, Beer Advocate, any of those … a lot of people just hate everything that isn't their personal brewery. Nothing is as good as "this."

I think another thing, too, is that a lot of people have this misconception that starting a brewery, you know, in three years you're gonna be Summit or Surly or Fulton or Indeed. Indeed did it in four, but that's an enigma, that doesn't happen.

Lastly, have we seen the last of the fire-eaters?

Thom: The fire eating was definitely more in our 20s thing … but it's like riding a bike, you never forget how to do it once you do it, which I proved actually with our 1-year anniversary. I hadn't picked up torches in 10 years. So, I stuck a flaming torch in my mouth and blew out fireballs, so you don't forget once you learn how to.

Dane: On very rare occasions (we'll eat fire). We would definitely announce it if we were gonna do it.

Thom: We can be talked into it …

Sounds like a bunch of us should talk them into it! Cheers!

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